Vicki Dau (00:05)
Welcome to Reframing Life and Love, where Tom and Vicki guide you on a transformative journey through healing and connection. Together we explore the profound effects of childhood sexual trauma on adult relationships and share practical tools to help you build a loving partnership. Two things, we do have a trigger warning. This podcast discusses sensitive topics related to childhood sexual abuse and trauma. Listener discretion is advised.
And we have a disclaimer. Before we begin, we want to remind you that we are not medical or mental health professionals. This podcast is based on our personal experiences and what has worked for us. While we aim to provide valuable insights and support, we encourage you to seek professional advice for any specific mental health or relationship issues which you may be facing.
Vicki Dau (00:58)
Hi there. Hello. We are here for today's episode of how to love a trauma survivor. In case you have asked that question before, we wanted to offer you some tips we invite you to comment of what has worked for you or any questions that you might have for us. And these are tips off of our experiences personally. Right. Or people we've known. Correct.
So we are going to present this episode from three different perspectives. And that's the perspective of the trauma survivor. The first perspective is going to be someone who is committed to their healing. That you are trying to love a trauma survivor who is committed to their healing. Not to say they don't get triggered or they're making mistakes or they're working on it.
The second perspective that we're going to offer you is someone who is aware of their trauma, but considers themselves a victim. And so they're struggling a lot and they feel like they have no power. They haven't taken their power back and taken responsibility for their life and their own choices. And we'll be talking about that and how to love that.
person. And then we're also going to talk about the third kind of possible scenario scenario is someone who has trauma in their past, especially sexual abuse trauma, who doesn't think it's an issue, who doesn't think it's a thing, and they're not going to go there and how to love that person. So we've got three different perspectives. The first perspective
that we are going to start with. So Tom is going to actually do a lot of the talking in this episode because he's loved me. Thank you, baby.
that I have and do and will continue. Thank you. So this is from the perspective of someone who is taking responsibility for their actions, for their beliefs, for the circumstances in your life, in their life, in my life. you continue to do that. You continue to work it. Thank you. So that's important too, because it's ongoing. It's ongoing. It gets easier, but it's ongoing. So that's part of it.
I feel like I don't live in the past, but I'm very aware of how the past affects my current situation, beliefs, patterns, behaviors. I'm very aware of that and I am diligently, actively working on shifting what I don't like that is happening. And so that's the first perspective is that you want to love someone.
who is working on themselves and is aware of the impact. Yes. Yeah. So, and I'm speaking this from our circumstance. So for me with Vicki, loving her is two things. It's things I do and things I try not to do. And that one's almost can be the more important one in showing love because
Love is so far beyond just the act of it. Love is respect in so many different levels. And so some of the things that I do or don't do, just to give you examples, is respect.
where she is at any given time as best I can. And so there's an importance in that that she needs to continue to reveal to me where she is at certain times, because different things come up in life. So depending on what state she's in, I may know that physical intimacy between us is something that for a period of time is not going to be beneficial to her. And so I respect that 100%.
It can be, so that's kind of the hardcore one, but there's so many other things of being cognizant. Would you say that that happens less now, right? That was this extended... Yes, yeah, but see, there was a point in time when I feel like you may have almost done it out of guilt or duty way back in the day. But I'm saying now...
I feel like the extended time is less. Correct. That's what I'm trying to across. is a true statement. And so there's an ebb and flow with it. And there's periods of time where you're going through difficult... Something may happen that will cause us to reflect back on certain circumstances. Or you may have something go on with you that...
that is causing you to rework something. And so I respect the space for that. I also have learned that you frequently, well, just some of the little things out of your situation. I know that you don't like whistling. That triggers you. So I try to stay away from that. I don't do a good job all the time, but I try and stay away from doing that. You startle easily. So.
I try to give warning when I know you're in a place of the house where you may not know I'm coming or if you're downstairs and I come in the front door, I'll make sure that you understand that I'm up there so that you're not startled by me coming down. And that may sound juvenile, but it isn't. I'll literally come to the stairs if I know she's in the laundry room, downstairs at the bottom of the stairs around the corner, and I will say, hey, I am coming down the stairs and you appreciate that. I do. So, you it's getting.
It's getting to know and respect your partner and what triggers them. This isn't necessarily something for everyone, but it is for us. it's like, wow, I would have never, you wouldn't think about having to announce my coming down a set of stairs to the laundry room. But I do that when she's around a corner and may not know that I'm coming down so that she doesn't startle.
I get out of it quicker than I used to. Oh yeah, big time. I used to like get so upset I would cry and like not be able to speak or be around people like for a half an hour after. Now, because it doesn't just happen with him. It could be anybody. It could be anybody. I'm if I'm especially actually it happens in the laundry room a lot. But if I'm in there, I kind of get my own mental own little world. And then all of a sudden somebody stand in there and it's like, and then I'll be like, OK.
I'm good. And then you're out of it. Yeah, that's what didn't used to be that way. But now it is. So and it actually now what's happening, it almost does more damage to the somebody who startled me. Yes. Then to me. Yeah. Not that I enjoy the process, but and but and to that point, I can't get upset about that. Yeah, because that just fuel puts puts gas on the fire that doesn't need to happen. He doesn't make fun of me. No, he doesn't.
express frustration like, my God, Vicki, get over it. Yeah, there's none of that. It's I'll tell you, it's respect. I really think that is a common response for a sexual abuse survivor is the high startle reflex. I hear that from a lot of especially women that that's a really common thing. And so it's really not serving you. If you are trying to love someone and you.
Belittle them or make fun of them or express all this frustration around it as opposed to it. You've to get past the guy the guys have to get past that Point and not do it. You just don't do it mean it's a decision you have to make to be the better person for yourself And so you know why why would why would I want to do or say something that's not gonna give her life? You know why do I want to break her down that that there's no benefit in that that is all just self-ishness on my part
if I were to do that. And so I truly try not to. I think I'm pretty good. don't think no, Never. That just, I would hate that. I would hate to bring in that pain. No, you don't. So those are, thank you baby. Those are a couple of the things. One else would be some things, you may, because now lot of it is just second nature. Well, we're trying to answer how to love someone who has trauma. I know another thing is,
that's frequent is I will, I know that she needs space to be her. And a lot of times that means to be her alone. And so I will do that. That's another way of showing love is giving respect for things that she needs and to be in the best place she can be. I will not watch TV shows that will affect her in a negative way. And we have a long list of things we wouldn't watch in the short list of things we do.
And we love what we do because I love what we do because it's we're doing it together. Otherwise, what's the point? I, I might one of my love languages is quantity time. So I always want to be around Vicki, even if we're not doing anything necessarily. I don't want to be for me a person that goes into another room to watch TV while she's doing something in her room. We do everything together. That's who we are. I'm not saying that for your one of your circumstances,
She may like to be, the wife may like to be in the living or reading a book and the husband would like to be out in the garage in his man cave watching TV and they're both great with that. If you're both great with that, that's showing love and respect and that's all good. This is just our personal scenario. My love language, high one is quantity time. So I like to be around Vicki all the time and sometimes to my detriment because then I become a jabber jaw and that can be frustrating to her but she tells me and so be it.
But that's another way that I show her love is by respecting what we do and don't watch on TV.
I also love her and this could be a hard one because it has to be a lot of this has to be on her is pointing out certain things that I feel are not going to serve her well. Decisions that she may be pondering, things that she may be pondering to do or people to talk to or let me just try it one more time. So for me, that's the tough love part of it, but it is love nonetheless is saying I'm not thinking that's a good thing.
what's gonna be the gain out of this? Or look what happened the last 15 times you tried to do this. It hasn't worked, so I think it's best if maybe that doesn't happen. So that's another harder love, but love nonetheless. But you give me room to make my own decision. And explain, because you may have come to a different place in something. Or, okay, that's it. I will try to say, but this is what I'm feeling about it this time. This is why I feel it's different this time.
And you may even say, know what, Vicki, you think it is, but it's not. but he's very gentle in how he's presenting it. Again, it's not a, I see all, I know all kind of an attitude. It's very conversational. And that's also because I try to put my perspective conversational. Like I'm thinking about doing this. I haven't made a decision. Can you give me your opinion on.
So you're laying groundwork for the conversation. And that's another thing that we talk about all the time is before we get into something, we'll say, hey, I want to get into something. Can we have a conversation about this? Then we both know, OK, this is something we're going to be working on or through. And I'm not throwing a judgment out there. So that's a big deal, actually. Yeah. Yeah.
There you go. So how to love someone who has been through trauma. there any other things that you can think of?
I I feel like that's kind of our day-to-day stuff. I hope you're not thinking of something in You try to fix it anymore. True that. You lot That was a big thing. Guys like to fix. I'm a contractor. That's So that's not necessarily a trauma survivor specifically. That's just good communication. Correct. Of not trying to fix. You're just trying to listen to your partner. True. However, in this situation, that's another way of showing love. Yes, it is. Big time. Big time. Is learning how to listen.
listen only, not to give opinions or fix-its unless she says, hey, what's your thought on it? Or I say, let me know if you're interested in something I thought about. And she may say, right now, not no. yeah, but usually you say, OK, because I put it that way to her, you'll say, OK, what's your thought? And then we talk about it more. respecting that, and you.
you having the comfort to know hopefully that I'm not going to try and fix every time you bring something up. Otherwise, you're going to quit bringing stuff up. And that doesn't help anybody either, obviously. And also, showing love is saying, hey, how are you doing? mean, just how was your night? How was your day? Letting her just talk to me and knowing that I care about what life is for her.
on a regular basis. I mean, because that could that could open communications that weren't otherwise necessarily going to happen. I was just thinking about how to love someone who's been through trauma. You can take the five love languages that we base our coaching on from Gary, Dr. Gary Chapman and its words of affirmation, its quality time.
No, quantity, quantity time, acts of service, gifts and physical touch. So all of those are ways that you show love to the other person. When you add the element of a trauma survivor, I think that's the ones that you highlighted. There can be triggers that a person who hasn't been through trauma doesn't have. There are allowances that you make.
that's kind of becomes your new baseline. But then you still have your love language where you express love to the other person as another person. And so I think that's something to just remember is it's just, would love that person and, you know, speak your love language, know their love language to speak theirs and don't make fun of things that.
are triggering, or make allowances for that as your, that's your normal. You know, just certain understandings, I guess, that you guys have because of the past history of trauma. Would you say that was kind of an accurate way to pull it out? Yes, yes. And we, we on my end have to be open to the ebb and flow of daily life with our partner who is a survivor because
things can change at the drop of a hat. And we have to be ready. I'm not saying that that happens all the time, but we have to know that it can. And when it does, we can't fly off. Right? she needs, showing her love is letting her know that she can trust me, letting her know that she can talk to me, letting her know that I'm here for her to lean on, letting her know that I will shut up when I need to, and that I will share when she wants me to. All those forms of respect for her.
are massive ways of showing love. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So the next type of person, next type of survivor to show love to might be a survivor who feels they have been victimized and they kind of are embodying that role. And so.
somebody who feels they're a victim in life, it's hard to get a lot, if any, positivity with them. And if they feel that they're a victim in everything, a victim in their trauma, and understand not saying that what happened to them wasn't victimizing. But as you grow and as you make choices and decisions and you're
Maybe you're reacting to things instead of responding. That's on you now.
It's we have to learn to take responsibility for the choices we make, no matter what has happened to us.
It's because of our choices, our beliefs, our behaviors that our life looks like what it looks like. Currently. Currently. if you don't like it, the first place to look is yourself. And even though you may have been victimized, if you're not willing to take responsibilities for the choices that you've made. To get out of victimhood, right?
you're not going to see a lot of change. It's just going to be more of the same. Same story, different actors, same story, different names, same pattern, different job, same outcome, different names. Maybe you go through boyfriends like crazy. you have a pattern of when they get too close, you freak out and you shut down.
and then you push them away. Well, see, nobody, nobody sticks with me. Well, there could be defense mechanisms that you have put into place that your body has put into place because you still don't feel safe because you have underlying subconscious beliefs that you are not safe, that men are not safe, that it's not safe to let your guard down. And it really serves us when we explore
those defense mechanisms that are no longer serving us now. We put them into place because we needed to, back when? But not now. But maybe not now. And so if they keep popping up and you see the same thing playing out over and over again, you're the primary player in that. And how do you love someone?
It's so from my perspective, it would be hard to be loving that person for a period of time because extended periods of time because the relationship will get to a point and then she will clam up or not share or push away or push away or get angry and freak out. And then you go back 10 steps and then you work through it again. Maybe you talk a little bit, but like Vicki said, if nothing is changing on her end,
then the relationship for me and for both, for me and then for the couple, is going to get to a point and after a while it's going to be just hitting your head on the wall because it's going to continue to go that way. And if there's no willingness to change and come out of living in a victimhood life, victimhood lifestyle of any sort is not going to bear long-term fruit in my opinion.
So a partner would not want to be, a healthy partner would not want to be in a relationship where fruit isn't going to be able to be reaped and shared with each other. And I can do all I want to offer suggestions, et cetera. But if she's not willing to look in,
and work on her so that we can work on her and work on us and me work on me, if there's not any of that fluidity between us all to become better, it's not gonna work. And all the negatives that are behind that you keep, the survivor is keeping upfront, not only is it not gonna bear good fruit, but it's going to breed.
disease and disorder, really? The chances are you probably have trouble, the survivor does, has trouble in a long-term relationship. So somebody loving them is not going to be possible because they won't allow it. Because in their mind, their defense mechanisms, their beliefs, it's not safe to be loved because maybe love equals sex, love equals pain, love equals...
It doesn't work. And so they will, it's safer to stop the relation that for the survivors, stop the relationship and get out or push that person away so that they're driven away. And while they, know, that per he didn't love me enough to stay. that makes you look like a victim again. And
So that's usually the pattern that can often be. Yeah, and it can go two ways. Either the survivor can push the person away or the person can just say, it's not working. I got to go. Yeah. So either way, not a good, right. Not a good relationship. Right. So there you can love them by praying for them and also praying for their healing.
Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah. But I don't know that a relationship type of love will exist if the survivor is in a victim mentality because they then are not taking any responsibility for their own life. And then the blame game, you you did this to trigger me. You did this. You did this. And chances are it would be for that person, it would be not just in this kind of relationship, but family relationships.
job relationships. those all life circumstances in victimhood are not going to end up positive until that person puts a different spin on what they're doing.
So hope that's helpful. And the third way that we wanted to present to you was a survivor who knows that they have been traumatized, who had went through trauma in the past, but are convinced it is a non-issue. Now, we actually come across the- And not because they've done all the work and healed through it. Yes. Because they feel there's nothing that needs to be done. Right.
So they're considering it's something that doesn't have to be dealt with. Correct. And that's often we get the husbands of those women who reach out to Tom and say, I don't know what to do. I love her, but she doesn't think her abuse is a problem. That's what I hear. They don't think it's that big a deal or it wasn't or it happened a long time ago. So it doesn't really matter now. And the truth is it's.
you're probably gonna say is they're not they're not allowing themselves the women are not allowing themselves to break into it to work it. Oftentimes there's a fear if I go there I'll never get out I won't be able to handle it it's too scary it's too much that's often the underlying fear and if I can give you guys any hope when you actually shine the light on it
It's out of the shadows. It's not so dark and foreboding. Not saying there might be things that are difficult to deal with or when they're brought to the surface. Or maybe it was the people who were abused, who were the abusers. Maybe there's family members. So now you're open up at a can of worms that are we going to participate in, you know, extended family events anymore? What's our life going to look like? So they just, it's easier to bury it, bury it, bury it.
I'm just thinking now of the Edgar Allan Poe, the poem that he wrote about that beating heart. And it was in the floorboards and the person who was ignoring it, burying it, they became obsessed with it. I don't know that that happens with a survivor that they're obsessed with it, but I guarantee you that it's driving reactions. It's driving responses. Beliefs that came out of that, that we created in that.
Those beliefs are driving behaviors. And so it's a part of your life. so as the survivor partner, if you're choosing to not go there, you are doing yourself a great disservice to you and your partner. Because like I said, this is the person we've heard of most often, is
They love their partner so much, but they don't know what to do anymore. And to be honest, I used to think you stick it out no matter what. You're in it for the long haul. And I, I don't know that one person that we're called to sacrifice our own healthy, a healthy, happy life because of the other person.
that we're with is miserable. that usually... Of their own doing. Yes. Meaning they're not trying to heal out of it. Not because they did something to themselves. Something was done to them that was horrible, but they're deciding that they're going to live in that victimhood instead of finding a life that's good for themselves. And then that would be allowing a partner to come into it. Right. But often somebody's been married. We often hear from these husbands who've been married for...
How long have been some of them? Yeah, multiple, like decades. Right. And they're just like at their wits end. And so what are they supposed to do? And I would just say, be careful, wives, if you're a trauma survivor and you're not going there.
And I will tell you from a male standpoint, if a relationship is fresh or new and this person is not willing, you cannot go into this kind of relationship. No, you cannot go into a relationship with this kind of a person who's stuck in their victimhood. It's not, can I say? it, yeah. I don't know if it's victimhood as opposed to just not going there. I don't know that they consider themselves a victim and they're playing victim role.
I think it's too scary to face it. And I don't think, I think there's a nuance there, babe. But isn't there a group of people who just decide? They say they don't, it's too scary to look at, but you don't necessarily consider yourself poor me. I don't think that's a conscious. Okay, yeah, true. Some may, some may. But I think a large group. A lot of these women, they are go-getters, they're strong, they're...
they probably run their household like it's their way or the highway because they have to be in control of something. Cause that's one of the ways that this plays out is when, when you're, when you are victimized, when you go through trauma, you're, you can't control it. So when you get to a place in your life that you can start controlling things, then you do. And that's how I was in the beginning before my memories came back. I was controlling our household.
so much that I basically told him what to do, when to do it and how to do it all the time, right? Then when my memories came back, it was like, no wonder I do that. no wonder that happens. And I worked on fixing myself after that. But if we are controlling too many things around us, when you control, you squeeze.
and you squeeze and then it goes through your fingers and then you open your hands and there's nothing left. And that is what could happen with your family is that you squeeze and squeeze and squeeze and then there's nothing left. And back to where I was going with the other thing is if it's a brand new relationship or a potential relationship from the guy's standpoint, you should not go into that relationship thinking,
If I just get in there, I'll be able to change her. Because if she's not willing, you will immediately drive her away because you're going to be pushing and shoving and talking and trying to fix and she's not in that place. So if she's not ready and willing to work and you think you're going to change it, it will fail always. It will fail always. That's on a newer end. Yeah. If you're fresh into the relationship. we run into those. I mean, we talked, we talked to...
How many couples? 200 couples. Over 200. Over 200 couples who were engaged, getting ready to be married. And that was one of the biggest things we talked about was for you guys going into this relationship. Accept each other where they are. Yeah, accept your partner where they are because if you think you're going to change them, it will not work. And that was one of our main things We would have them look at each other in the eyes and say that
you love each other and you accept each other exactly how you are right now. That you're not, you don't have an agenda of what you're going to do once you're married. Cause that will fail. Yeah. Yeah. and you're also, even if you do it with the best of intentions, like, I know I can help them. And like you want to be their savior. Jesus Christ is the only savior and I don't think you're Jesus Christ. So, you know, just,
saying you can certainly assist them but to be the driving force behind it I think is dangerous and it's something that you may want to reconsider because it's hard to say you're have a one hell of a bumpy bumpy bumpy road if you're fresh into this and the person you're with is not willing to go there is not willing
if they even will try?
You can do it. if they're not even willing to try. It will come back to haunt. There's nothing you can do. then it becomes really toxic. And do you want to be with them? And that's where there could be, you know, somebody who's very spiritual may say, well, I need to, I can sacrifice my happiness to try to help them. I don't know that that's even going to work. does God want us to be miserable?
And it won't work if the other person's not willing. You can say that, think I can help them all you want, but unless they're willing to receive help, and a lot of that has to be of their own doing, it won't work. You can send all the help you want. If they don't receive it, it bounces right back. Period.
We should have started maybe with the negative ones and go and ended with the positive. That was like, to, got to, you got a positive picture. Yeah, that was like a real downer. The best case scenario is for us survivors to take responsibility for what's going on in our life right now and, and work on, get resources, um, coaching, reach out. We would love to work with couples.
And if you're with a significant person in your life, invite them to open and share. Then it all starts flowing. Yeah, true. And you can even say, I don't know how good I'm going to be at this, but I want to be there for you. How do we do it? Let's do it. There you go. There you go. We actually have a good resource for that.
We have a free ebook that we have written. think it's like 17 pages, 16 pages. It's an awesome resource. It's called Love's Resilience. And it talks about what you can do. It talks about what you can do in your relationship to be strong together. It's amazing. it's our best tips. It's concise. It's awesome.
and it's free to you. All you have to do is put your first name and email and we'll send it to you. And so we'll have the link in our show notes that you can click on to get that for yourself. resource. One of the things I love to do if you're watching on YouTube is I like to show a picture to kind of inspire. So this is one of the pictures I painted. So this would be the goal. So is that. What that that was taken a picture that I took of you. Yeah.
when we were out having dinner. On my birthday last year. Okay, thank you. you were loving, we were loving being out together and you looked beautiful and you still do, but you were in a really neat place right there and you were taking a drink of, don't drink much, you were taking a drink of your daiquiri and I said, let's get a, or we said, let's get a picture of this. Cause you looked like you were just, you were enjoying life. Just having fun. We were having fun. And the way that I was working with the painting on this too was another one, more happy go lucky.
lots of color and just fun. And so the goal would be is when we are healing and working through things together, we go out and have a good time. know, we enjoy doing life together. We We do. We enjoy doing life together. That's a great picture. Thank you. Painting. Thank you. So sign up for your ebook and each of you, each of you sign up for it because then
Each of you can have your own copies. All right, until next time, this is Tom and Vicki embracing love and fostering hope.
Vicki Dau (33:14)
Thank you very much for joining us on this episode of Reframing Life and Love. We hope you found the inspiration and actionable insights to enhance your relationship. Don't forget to subscribe for more empowering discussions. Until next time, this is Tom and Vicki. Embracing love, fostering hope.
